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yummypaint 45 minutes ago [-]
When we hit the academic brain drain tipping point in the US, talent isn't going to just start trickling away, it's going to be like a greedy cup siphon. Countries preparing to attract these people now will reap a windfall the US has carefully cultivated over a century. This administration has demonstrated the federal government cannot be trusted to keep it's commitments and long-term plans, and it will now take a generation of stability to disabuse people of that notion.
sandworm101 25 minutes ago [-]
Blaming the government is a cop out. The american government is an expression of the will of the american people. For all the screaming, a politicaly significant percentage of the population supports every decision being made by this administration. There is an election comming up. I want to be proven wrong. But i suspect the ussual patterns will emerge and little will change. Too many people are too comfortable with the current situation.
micromacrofoot 1 minutes ago [-]
The thing about dumb people is that the dumber they are the easier it is to convince them that changing their position is against their interests.
This has been something that's been foisted upon the American public through its politics, propaganda, media, and other systems for decades. As a result they have been fleeced through the visage of democracy that has been capped and gerrymandered away from them.
We are now in a situation where the entire fate of the country rests on ~250k people who live in some of the poorest, most homogeneous, media-blasted parts of the country.
sdcfgy 5 minutes ago [-]
Yeah. America is a symptom of Americans...
wand3r 16 minutes ago [-]
This is such a crazy statement. Democracy in the US is dead. People are incredibly dumb and I believe you have the causal relationship reversed, even for relatively smart people.
The will of the American people is deeply influenced by interested parties dumping money into various areas. Rich elite own almost all media and even "democratized" social media is heavily influenced. You can't even use a search engine these days.
Ultimately, the 70% plus "will" of the people is money out of politics, stock bans for elected officials, no foreign wars and universal healthcare. Things both parties unite to curtail
markvdb 8 minutes ago [-]
> Democracy in the US is dead. People are incredibly dumb[...]
So what alternative or incremental improvement to democracy would you propose? And more importantly, how would you like to get there?
pirate787 14 minutes ago [-]
"Democracy is dead" because I disagree with the policy preferences of the majority of voters.
bix6 10 minutes ago [-]
They aren’t wrong about the influence of money though.
rzerowan 7 minutes ago [-]
IMHO its mostly been proven that special intrests , corporations hold more influence than the electorate. To that extent that bot wings of the uniparty basically persue the same agenda with very little variation in econ/pol while distarcting everyone with nonstop culture war bs.
Ergo its more feasible to playact at parades thsn it is to have a proper industrial policy for example that would mean hosing Wall Streeet profits to do. so.
ptero 7 minutes ago [-]
While I agree with much of what you wrote the percentage of people supporting every (or even most) decision of this administration is very small. But a large portion of the population doesn't like the alternative any better.
They said a few years ago that Trump and Biden have a chance only if they run against each other.
So it is more nuanced. We will see what the candidates in 2 years look like.
10xDev 33 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
2PqboPPmKegvanx 7 minutes ago [-]
>automated by SI
calling it SI is the version is equal to the 3 meme from Inglorious Basterds[0]
You made a typo. The term used by practioners of the art and generally understood worldwide is "AI", not "SI"...
sandworm101 18 minutes ago [-]
Not any more. Just like the lake/gulf of america, the politically correct term is now "Super Intelligence". Use it or out yourself as an agitator and say goodbye to whatever visa rule, license, grant, tax exemption or government contract underpins your business.
realo 15 minutes ago [-]
Fortunately I am Canadian and enjoy my freedom to say "AI" ... like the rest of the world.
Tade0 12 minutes ago [-]
Imagine my confusion when people started throwing around the officially accepted, in my native language, abbreviation for artificial intelligence.
thatsabadlook 30 minutes ago [-]
You don't think it's in AI companies long term interests to lack human talent to do science or math and destroy the us educational system? Followup do you think AI companies are paying into the current regime?
lifeisloving 28 minutes ago [-]
'SI' are we really calling llms this?
10xDev 12 minutes ago [-]
We are actively watching SI diverge from strictly relying on human knowledge to now creating its own repository of knowledge (see current math research) while training on synthetic data using RLVR over human curated data and human supervision. I don't think you realise that this trend is only going to continue to the point human language is going to stop being a crutch it relies on, in fact Astra can reason without CoT now.
master-lincoln 6 minutes ago [-]
nah, that abbreviation already had a well known meaning in science: the international unit system
Not at all. Trump ordered everyone , during his speech at the United Nations , to use "SI" from now on, instead of "AI". That was one of his important priorities.
If you see someone use "SI" they are sending you a signal. Just politely correct their mistake.
causesothere 25 minutes ago [-]
No. No one is seriously calling it this. It's virtue signaling.
calvinmorrison 13 minutes ago [-]
I love how words are politics. Be it white or Black.
fredoliveira 19 minutes ago [-]
I don't see the virtue in it?
dpkirchner 17 minutes ago [-]
It's not for you, it's for them (the weird folks).
The one constant of Trump is he'll fuck anyone over. He's not capable of having buddies, unless you count Epstein.
throw93930443 38 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
TrackerFF 15 minutes ago [-]
At least here in Scandinavia, the US is quite popular for the most ambitious and driven students that are interested in entrepreneurship. They apply to top US schools on either coasts via exchange programs, or a full degree, exactly because the schools are so close to the startup scene. Imposing a $100k fee to hire those, would effectively make such types of graduates very unattractive to startups.
Every country should block american big tech to create tech jobs for their people. This fixes americas immigration problem too
petcat 17 minutes ago [-]
Nobody will tolerate being forced to use "EU government phone" instead of iPhone or Google Android. They will just revolt against their own government instead.
figmert 13 minutes ago [-]
Eh? I'm guessing you've never spoken to a European. Especially since Trump's second term (though not just because of Trump), Europeans generally have a bad view of US tech companies.
petcat 10 minutes ago [-]
> never spoken to a European
Irrelevant. The EU is not taking American tech, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon away from 330 million Europeans and replacing it with..nothing? without widespread outrage. In a lot of ways it would cause a societal collapse.
sajithdilshan 7 minutes ago [-]
Maybe that’s true in your close people bubble. Don’t generalise it to everyone European. I’m pretty sure there a big Trump fans base in Poland, Hungary and Germany to name a few.
3 minutes ago [-]
ChoGGi 2 minutes ago [-]
I remember while growing up hearing talk on the news about brain drain.
Thanks Trump; next do EV cars worldwide.
That felt dirty as a Canadian.
I did also wonder what the Riddler had to do with Canadians going to the States...
2PqboPPmKegvanx 9 minutes ago [-]
speedrunning brain drain, you spend decades building a moat based on stability and proceed to end decades of work in 24 months.
Gigioingiro 1 hours ago [-]
US keep pursuing this political agenda that goes against the whole foundation of the country rise as world superpower. I wonder how long it needs to last before Europe starts to roll serious academic policy that attracts the orphaned talent refused by US.
The Netherlands started well with the Tulip Fund but a systematic effort is needed. Korea is expanding his VISA grants for AI or tech top talents. Its the first time in decades where top world talent does not point altogether towards US and will be interesting to see which policy from other countries will reveal to be more effective. It's a tight window to take advantage of before the change in US administration so an economical effort in a short time period is required.
sajithdilshan 42 minutes ago [-]
I don't think this would negatively affect the crème de la crème, they would even have a high demand in US companies especially in STEM fields with higher salaries after finishing the studies.
US is popular for higher studies for students all around the world not only because of the opportunities, but also English being the language for studies. I'm not sure how it works in EU countries. Does Netherland or South Korea offers degree programs completely in English?
iamniels 33 minutes ago [-]
> Netherland
Yeah, all higher studies and institutions are in English and you can get around in public with just English. Most expats will rarely hear or need Dutch (The language of The Netherlands).
oersted 22 minutes ago [-]
> Most expats will rarely hear or need Dutch
That is an overstatement. Dutch is the primary language everywhere like the native language of any country. It is true that in major cities most people speak excellent English and you can definitely manage easily without speaking Dutch.
But Dutch is spoken absolutely everywhere and most signage is only in Dutch. Also, as soon as you get a bit outside of the big cities, you find many people with a middling level of English, similar to most other countries in Europe. Even in cities, many working class people and actually most immigrants from non English speaking countries only speak Dutch.
sajithdilshan 28 minutes ago [-]
How about the language usage at workplace after graduation? Would one have to learn Dutch or still continue everything with English?
Also is it easy to get a job after graduation in Netherlands in STEM field? As an example if someone graduated in medicine (doctor, nurse, etc.) then wouldn’t proficiency in Dutch be mandatory to work?
boelboel 4 minutes ago [-]
It's probably not that big of a problem in the absolute top companies but once you go anywhere else they'll prefer Dutch natives and you'll face hurdles trying to get promotions. This is a big reason why expats end up leaving the country. It also causes resentment from both sides in daily life.
manvillej 29 minutes ago [-]
Most Dutch will only speak English to non-Dutch. Which is really annoying if you’re there trying to learn Dutch
fifilura 32 minutes ago [-]
Same in Sweden, welcome!
dingaling911 49 minutes ago [-]
US rise as a world superpower was luck as opposed to something deliberate, just like most rises are.
causesothere 19 minutes ago [-]
Luck? They killed 95% of the existing inhabitants, used a huge agricultural, mining, and forestry base to spread productivity, built national infrastructure with enslaved and indentured labor. They stayed out of two crippling wars as long as they possibly could, and ultimately were the only major power that was able to mostly avoid damage from the war.
After which they invited the best scientists from the axis to come build things for them. They then used their position to topple governments around the world for their companies, annex territory (see: Hawaii), and press their interests globally.
What about these steps is luck? Evil, sure, but luck?
18 minutes ago [-]
Iolaum 32 minutes ago [-]
It's not luck it's starting conditions. People have written books about the benefits of geography and natural resources.
42 minutes ago [-]
rcr-anti 29 minutes ago [-]
If memory serves, they've tried this several different ways but keep getting injuncted since it amounts to a tax and not a reasonable processing fee.
arenaninja 5 minutes ago [-]
My understanding is that since OPT was created via executive magic instead of Congress the department overseeing the program is woefully understaffed and underfunded. Visa work in the US really is at the intersection of DHS, DOL and DOS at the end of the day. It may be that the executive needs to rethink this for better department communication, collaboration and efficiency and investment is genuinely necessary given the scale of these programs compared to their inception.
braj0 14 minutes ago [-]
Ohh so this is a tax but inflation isn't? I don't ever remember voting for an inflation tax. Our government is so corrupt.
fg137 4 minutes ago [-]
I have trouble following the logic of this comment
drivingmenuts 8 minutes ago [-]
If the US imposes this charge, they will go somewhere else. Europe, maybe. China, maybe. We won't get the immediate benefit of their work like we do now. This will kill some graduate programs and constrain a lot of others. It is hard to see any positive benefits from this move.
If I were China, I'd move on this aggressively. If I were any country with a strong interest in STEM, I'd do the same. In fact, just the mention of this action should spur a somewhat aggressive response.
ubermonkey 36 minutes ago [-]
We are committing suicide as a nation.
ks2048 4 minutes ago [-]
"... but in the meantime there will be great companies created ..."
slowmovintarget 12 minutes ago [-]
By setting up a jobs market for foreigners but not for Americans, and by allowing corporations to install immigrant intake machines at the expense of Americans? Yes. That's what needs fixing.
I'm in favor of legal immigration. I'm not in favor of H1Bs and the "default" pathway.
If we don't get educated and employed as Americans, then yes, we'll be committing suicide.
If someone's post-graduate work is that important, and that particular individual is so unbelievably critical to that particular post-doc work, then surely the fee would be worth it. If it's not, then advantaging the market for post-docs in America to actual Americans seems like a good thing, something governments are meant to do for their citizens.
Is there a reason the American government shouldn't be allowed to act on behalf of its citizens and must act in favor of everyone else?
chinathrow 15 minutes ago [-]
Look at their handlers.
ModernMech 7 minutes ago [-]
This government is doing everything they can to make the lives of my students a living hell. First it was the kidnappings and deportations, if that wasn’t enough.
Then they defunded their projects, even projects that had already been funded so they destroyed a bunch of in-progress research that can’t be restarted.
Then they started fucking with internships, trying to make it so that foreign students can only get an internship if it’s part of the degree program, which most are not.
And of course they completely slowed the document processing down to a snail pace so that students can’t even get to campus on time for the start of the semester.
Now this. Absolutely insane. America had a higher academic system second to none, people came from around the world to attend our schools, made America better, and brought America back to the places they came from in a positive light.
I have one student who fled civil war, he started learning about CS from a country he took refuge in, made his way to America over years, started at a state school and then worked his way up to the graduate level where he busts his ass working in a kitchen every day to be able to afford it. Today he’s publishing papers at top conferences in CS. Every day he is eager to learn and grateful for all opportunities he’s given.
And this government wants to chase that kind of student out of the country.
Meanwhile my American students show up to class and ask me “is this class hard?” And then they drop it once they find out it takes work, like gasp opening a paper book and reading it faints.
It’s going to take decades to repair this damage and I hope all of you here who voted for it (I know there are plenty) understand the damage you caused with your choice. I wish you’ll help fix it because it’s going to take everyone.
This has been something that's been foisted upon the American public through its politics, propaganda, media, and other systems for decades. As a result they have been fleeced through the visage of democracy that has been capped and gerrymandered away from them.
We are now in a situation where the entire fate of the country rests on ~250k people who live in some of the poorest, most homogeneous, media-blasted parts of the country.
The will of the American people is deeply influenced by interested parties dumping money into various areas. Rich elite own almost all media and even "democratized" social media is heavily influenced. You can't even use a search engine these days.
Ultimately, the 70% plus "will" of the people is money out of politics, stock bans for elected officials, no foreign wars and universal healthcare. Things both parties unite to curtail
So what alternative or incremental improvement to democracy would you propose? And more importantly, how would you like to get there?
They said a few years ago that Trump and Biden have a chance only if they run against each other.
So it is more nuanced. We will see what the candidates in 2 years look like.
calling it SI is the version is equal to the 3 meme from Inglorious Basterds[0]
[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/shittymoviedetails/comments/1q0hrdj...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI
If you see someone use "SI" they are sending you a signal. Just politely correct their mistake.
/s
https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/trump-anyone-sa...
Irrelevant. The EU is not taking American tech, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon away from 330 million Europeans and replacing it with..nothing? without widespread outrage. In a lot of ways it would cause a societal collapse.
Thanks Trump; next do EV cars worldwide.
That felt dirty as a Canadian.
I did also wonder what the Riddler had to do with Canadians going to the States...
US is popular for higher studies for students all around the world not only because of the opportunities, but also English being the language for studies. I'm not sure how it works in EU countries. Does Netherland or South Korea offers degree programs completely in English?
Yeah, all higher studies and institutions are in English and you can get around in public with just English. Most expats will rarely hear or need Dutch (The language of The Netherlands).
That is an overstatement. Dutch is the primary language everywhere like the native language of any country. It is true that in major cities most people speak excellent English and you can definitely manage easily without speaking Dutch.
But Dutch is spoken absolutely everywhere and most signage is only in Dutch. Also, as soon as you get a bit outside of the big cities, you find many people with a middling level of English, similar to most other countries in Europe. Even in cities, many working class people and actually most immigrants from non English speaking countries only speak Dutch.
Also is it easy to get a job after graduation in Netherlands in STEM field? As an example if someone graduated in medicine (doctor, nurse, etc.) then wouldn’t proficiency in Dutch be mandatory to work?
After which they invited the best scientists from the axis to come build things for them. They then used their position to topple governments around the world for their companies, annex territory (see: Hawaii), and press their interests globally.
What about these steps is luck? Evil, sure, but luck?
If I were China, I'd move on this aggressively. If I were any country with a strong interest in STEM, I'd do the same. In fact, just the mention of this action should spur a somewhat aggressive response.
I'm in favor of legal immigration. I'm not in favor of H1Bs and the "default" pathway.
If we don't get educated and employed as Americans, then yes, we'll be committing suicide.
If someone's post-graduate work is that important, and that particular individual is so unbelievably critical to that particular post-doc work, then surely the fee would be worth it. If it's not, then advantaging the market for post-docs in America to actual Americans seems like a good thing, something governments are meant to do for their citizens.
Is there a reason the American government shouldn't be allowed to act on behalf of its citizens and must act in favor of everyone else?
Then they defunded their projects, even projects that had already been funded so they destroyed a bunch of in-progress research that can’t be restarted.
Then they started fucking with internships, trying to make it so that foreign students can only get an internship if it’s part of the degree program, which most are not.
And of course they completely slowed the document processing down to a snail pace so that students can’t even get to campus on time for the start of the semester.
Now this. Absolutely insane. America had a higher academic system second to none, people came from around the world to attend our schools, made America better, and brought America back to the places they came from in a positive light.
I have one student who fled civil war, he started learning about CS from a country he took refuge in, made his way to America over years, started at a state school and then worked his way up to the graduate level where he busts his ass working in a kitchen every day to be able to afford it. Today he’s publishing papers at top conferences in CS. Every day he is eager to learn and grateful for all opportunities he’s given.
And this government wants to chase that kind of student out of the country.
Meanwhile my American students show up to class and ask me “is this class hard?” And then they drop it once they find out it takes work, like gasp opening a paper book and reading it faints.
It’s going to take decades to repair this damage and I hope all of you here who voted for it (I know there are plenty) understand the damage you caused with your choice. I wish you’ll help fix it because it’s going to take everyone.